Chapter 326: 326
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Jen paused, not wishing to escalate this into a full-blown fight. Giving Eldrian some time to cool down, she asked, "And when can you say someone is aware? Aren't animals aware too?"
"Whe-" Eldrian stopped, finding that he was incapable of answering this. The question was one similar to the one about souls. It was something unquantifiable. Something one could not measure. At least not with known tools.
His measure was them being able to communicate. But some animals could communicate too, just not with humans. Many of the beasts and monsters could however surpass the limits of normal animals. Realizing this made Eldrian truly tongue-tied. Asking at what point would they turned from monsters, beasts, to conscious beings.
This was not the main point he had argued, but it was as much an important question. He related to the human-like species far easier. Only needing to argue that they were real, even if they were in a different plane. A virtual one.
The monster, beasts, devils, and even magical creatures. They were all alive, and by his former logic they should all also be real. However, outside of the Alicorns, he had a hard time caring for the others.
And he only cared for the Alicorns due to having talked with them, having even experienced Zamia's experiences when she shared some of her memories with him.
What she had shared was even clearer than many of his own. Establishing even more that she must be aware. But how else, without telepathy, was he to find who should be deemed to be sentient? Yet this did not matter, it only made his hypocrisy clear to himself.
What makes one aware? What makes one real? Eldrian asked himself this as he tried to find an answer outside of his personal belief. In the end, he felt that the answer was belief itself.
Much like how he had learned a soul is formed by belief, Eldrian realized that existence is also a case of belief. The developers feared that the NPCs learning of their creation might lead to existential dread. But who was to say that they who had created the simulation was real.
It was a question without an answer, and Eldrian found he did not care for it. If they too were a simulation, so what? He realized that he did not place importance on his surroundings, in his world.
The place, the physical, did not matter. What mattered was the experiences. For, in the end, this was all that one was. A collection of experiences. A collection which tries to improve. Often failing and repeating past mistakes, yet always aware of the experience. The emotions felt.
Not the place. Not the smells. Not the pain.
The emotions, and what accompanied them. The emotions bringing the physical back, recreating the memory. Or the physical sometimes bringing the memory. But while the place might sometimes be forgotten, the smells, the noise, what was said. The emotions were never forgotten, it anchored the memory in time. In existence.
"You are right," Eldrian said after having taken a long deep look at why. Finally being able to better understand why he so easily became attached to those in the game. Those who others, like his sister, felt were not real.
Is this the key? Eldrian wondered, thinking about how he was the only person to have been able to use magic. That those who claim to have felt something, claimed to have followed some of his advice. That all those were also close to the NPCs.
The difference, Eldrian felt, was that he truly believed the NPCs were his equal. That, if he grew close to them, then they would be just as important as people where he was born. A different plane, but a plane nonetheless.
Most players do not believe this. They feel sympathy, they hate seeing the NPCs being hurt. Some even feel traumatized after losing a friend who was an NPCs.
But... They never compare it to human life. Their description of it is always more like losing a pet. The fact that they had a human form made the confusion harder, the distinction less. But they remained adamant that the NPCs were just code. Nonreal.
"I do not know how to explain it," Eldrian said, Jen had given him the time to sort out his thoughts. "Let me ask, how do you know you are real?"
"Because I am," Jen answered with almost no pause. The question, rather, the reason for Eldrian's question only hit her after she answered. And it truly shocked her.
"I see. That is what you mean." Jen paused, going through her own thoughts and Eldrian gave her the time she needed. Even ordering their meal while she stayed in contemplation.
After a while, she finally spoke again, "So... Is this correct? You feel that being able to say you are real, means you are."
"In a manner," Eldrian nodded, already finding a few flaws with making it that simple. However, making it that simple made it easier to explain.
"But... How can you accept that so easily?" Jen asked, unable to shake the belief that she was much more real than the AI and the NPCs. She just could not accept her reality was not the real one. Trying had nearly caused her to feel depressed. As a result, she had stopped trying as soon as she felt the feeling of loss.
Eldrian, in contrast, did not need to believe they were the real one. Instead, he believed all were equally real. That what mattered was the consciousness, which he hoped to one day truly be capable of quantifying.
"I never asked or questioned it. It just happened, I only realized now what happened." Eldrian replied, making space for the waiter who was bringing their food.
After the plates were placed before them, Eldrian added, "Have you ever questioned why we are conscious, or what it is?"
Jen shook her head in reply as she took a bite.
"Think about it for a few days, think about why we have so many religions. Why do people always grasp for one, even in a world where magic exists. Religions were created."
"But..." Jen paused to swallow, "They have gods, don't they."
Eldrian smiled, taking a bite himself. "Yes and no. The AI are not gods, they are creators. Higher beings in that world. But that does not make them gods."
"Yes, they accept the prayers. Yes, they sometimes cast miracles for their believers. But they never asked for believers. They complete their function, their jobs. What they themselves were made to do. Yet, in doing so, people started believing in them. Worshipping them. Why?"
Jen had plenty of answers. Yet she stopped herself, recalling that Eldrian mentioned specifically that magic existed in their world. This made it far more complicated a question.
On Earth, if someone could perform magic, they would be deemed a god by the masses. Scientists might want to study them, others learn from them. Most would just believe in them, hoping that doing so would somehow solve their problems.
This was different when magic was present. What they were seeing was explainable, just a much higher level of what they knew. It was comparable to aliens landing one Earth with insane tech.
Modern humans, at least a good amount of them, would not start worshipping them because of this. At least, not as long as they did not hide their technology as magic, but rather making it clear that it was just science.
If people knew this, then they would wish to understand. Not to worship.
This meant that there must be a different reason for belief. That it was not just bowing to powerful beings, but rather something inside of them. Jen quickly found a possible reason. That it was a way to fill the void she had felt creeping in.
"I-I... That is a good point." Jen said, feeling slightly lost. Shocked how much this conversation had rocked her. Not because of Miracle nor the AI, but because of her own personal beliefs. And more specifically, what her brother seemed to believe.
They were never raised religiously. Jen had thought she had a very open mind. Now she found her mind was like a rock in the sea compared to her brothers. Unable to change, and fighting the tides. If she lost grip, she felt she would never be able to stop being controlled by the tides.
...
"What the hell is happening?" Joren asked, having already notified all the other department heads, even having notified Micaela.
"I-I... I do not know, sir." Flavia stuttered, having managed to join the monitoring crew on Eldrian's case. Due to his random playtime, they needed someone on him 24/7. Joren did not trust the system to always inform them of developments.
Due to the constant need, and the boringness of the job, most people did not wish to take part in it. If something happens, they would all be notified in any case. As such, being the one to monitor just meant staring at a screen with a bunch of lines and a few numbers for hours each day.
Flavia had volunteered, and with the job not requiring much technical skill, some of the seniors had quickly dumped it on her. She had hoped it would allow her to find out why Eldrian got special treatment, as well as get in contact with the department heads.
Finally, after a week of monitoring, it paid off. However, she found that the contact was one of her being shoved to the side as everyone took things over.
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Jen paused, not wishing to escalate this into a full-blown fight. Giving Eldrian some time to cool down, she asked, "And when can you say someone is aware? Aren't animals aware too?"
"Whe-" Eldrian stopped, finding that he was incapable of answering this. The question was one similar to the one about souls. It was something unquantifiable. Something one could not measure. At least not with known tools.
His measure was them being able to communicate. But some animals could communicate too, just not with humans. Many of the beasts and monsters could however surpass the limits of normal animals. Realizing this made Eldrian truly tongue-tied. Asking at what point would they turned from monsters, beasts, to conscious beings.
This was not the main point he had argued, but it was as much an important question. He related to the human-like species far easier. Only needing to argue that they were real, even if they were in a different plane. A virtual one.
The monster, beasts, devils, and even magical creatures. They were all alive, and by his former logic they should all also be real. However, outside of the Alicorns, he had a hard time caring for the others.
And he only cared for the Alicorns due to having talked with them, having even experienced Zamia's experiences when she shared some of her memories with him.
What she had shared was even clearer than many of his own. Establishing even more that she must be aware. But how else, without telepathy, was he to find who should be deemed to be sentient? Yet this did not matter, it only made his hypocrisy clear to himself.
What makes one aware? What makes one real? Eldrian asked himself this as he tried to find an answer outside of his personal belief. In the end, he felt that the answer was belief itself.
Much like how he had learned a soul is formed by belief, Eldrian realized that existence is also a case of belief. The developers feared that the NPCs learning of their creation might lead to existential dread. But who was to say that they who had created the simulation was real.
It was a question without an answer, and Eldrian found he did not care for it. If they too were a simulation, so what? He realized that he did not place importance on his surroundings, in his world.
The place, the physical, did not matter. What mattered was the experiences. For, in the end, this was all that one was. A collection of experiences. A collection which tries to improve. Often failing and repeating past mistakes, yet always aware of the experience. The emotions felt.
Not the place. Not the smells. Not the pain.
The emotions, and what accompanied them. The emotions bringing the physical back, recreating the memory. Or the physical sometimes bringing the memory. But while the place might sometimes be forgotten, the smells, the noise, what was said. The emotions were never forgotten, it anchored the memory in time. In existence.
"You are right," Eldrian said after having taken a long deep look at why. Finally being able to better understand why he so easily became attached to those in the game. Those who others, like his sister, felt were not real.
Is this the key? Eldrian wondered, thinking about how he was the only person to have been able to use magic. That those who claim to have felt something, claimed to have followed some of his advice. That all those were also close to the NPCs.
The difference, Eldrian felt, was that he truly believed the NPCs were his equal. That, if he grew close to them, then they would be just as important as people where he was born. A different plane, but a plane nonetheless.
Most players do not believe this. They feel sympathy, they hate seeing the NPCs being hurt. Some even feel traumatized after losing a friend who was an NPCs.
But... They never compare it to human life. Their description of it is always more like losing a pet. The fact that they had a human form made the confusion harder, the distinction less. But they remained adamant that the NPCs were just code. Nonreal.
"I do not know how to explain it," Eldrian said, Jen had given him the time to sort out his thoughts. "Let me ask, how do you know you are real?"
"Because I am," Jen answered with almost no pause. The question, rather, the reason for Eldrian's question only hit her after she answered. And it truly shocked her.
"I see. That is what you mean." Jen paused, going through her own thoughts and Eldrian gave her the time she needed. Even ordering their meal while she stayed in contemplation.
After a while, she finally spoke again, "So... Is this correct? You feel that being able to say you are real, means you are."
"In a manner," Eldrian nodded, already finding a few flaws with making it that simple. However, making it that simple made it easier to explain.
"But... How can you accept that so easily?" Jen asked, unable to shake the belief that she was much more real than the AI and the NPCs. She just could not accept her reality was not the real one. Trying had nearly caused her to feel depressed. As a result, she had stopped trying as soon as she felt the feeling of loss.
Eldrian, in contrast, did not need to believe they were the real one. Instead, he believed all were equally real. That what mattered was the consciousness, which he hoped to one day truly be capable of quantifying.
"I never asked or questioned it. It just happened, I only realized now what happened." Eldrian replied, making space for the waiter who was bringing their food.
After the plates were placed before them, Eldrian added, "Have you ever questioned why we are conscious, or what it is?"
Jen shook her head in reply as she took a bite.
"Think about it for a few days, think about why we have so many religions. Why do people always grasp for one, even in a world where magic exists. Religions were created."
"But..." Jen paused to swallow, "They have gods, don't they."
Eldrian smiled, taking a bite himself. "Yes and no. The AI are not gods, they are creators. Higher beings in that world. But that does not make them gods."
"Yes, they accept the prayers. Yes, they sometimes cast miracles for their believers. But they never asked for believers. They complete their function, their jobs. What they themselves were made to do. Yet, in doing so, people started believing in them. Worshipping them. Why?"
Jen had plenty of answers. Yet she stopped herself, recalling that Eldrian mentioned specifically that magic existed in their world. This made it far more complicated a question.
On Earth, if someone could perform magic, they would be deemed a god by the masses. Scientists might want to study them, others learn from them. Most would just believe in them, hoping that doing so would somehow solve their problems.
This was different when magic was present. What they were seeing was explainable, just a much higher level of what they knew. It was comparable to aliens landing one Earth with insane tech.
Modern humans, at least a good amount of them, would not start worshipping them because of this. At least, not as long as they did not hide their technology as magic, but rather making it clear that it was just science.
If people knew this, then they would wish to understand. Not to worship.
This meant that there must be a different reason for belief. That it was not just bowing to powerful beings, but rather something inside of them. Jen quickly found a possible reason. That it was a way to fill the void she had felt creeping in.
"I-I... That is a good point." Jen said, feeling slightly lost. Shocked how much this conversation had rocked her. Not because of Miracle nor the AI, but because of her own personal beliefs. And more specifically, what her brother seemed to believe.
They were never raised religiously. Jen had thought she had a very open mind. Now she found her mind was like a rock in the sea compared to her brothers. Unable to change, and fighting the tides. If she lost grip, she felt she would never be able to stop being controlled by the tides.
...
"What the hell is happening?" Joren asked, having already notified all the other department heads, even having notified Micaela.
"I-I... I do not know, sir." Flavia stuttered, having managed to join the monitoring crew on Eldrian's case. Due to his random playtime, they needed someone on him 24/7. Joren did not trust the system to always inform them of developments.
Due to the constant need, and the boringness of the job, most people did not wish to take part in it. If something happens, they would all be notified in any case. As such, being the one to monitor just meant staring at a screen with a bunch of lines and a few numbers for hours each day.
Flavia had volunteered, and with the job not requiring much technical skill, some of the seniors had quickly dumped it on her. She had hoped it would allow her to find out why Eldrian got special treatment, as well as get in contact with the department heads.
Finally, after a week of monitoring, it paid off. However, she found that the contact was one of her being shoved to the side as everyone took things over.
Jen paused, not wishing to escalate this into a full-blown fight. Giving Eldrian some time to cool down, she asked, "And when can you say someone is aware? Aren't animals aware too?""Whe-" Eldrian stopped, finding that he was incapable of answering this. The question was one similar to the one about souls. It was something unquantifiable. Something one could not measure. At least not with known tools. His measure was them being able to communicate. But some animals could communicate too, just not with humans. Many of the beasts and monsters could however surpass the limits of normal animals. Realizing this made Eldrian truly tongue-tied. Asking at what point would they turned from monsters, beasts, to conscious beings. This was not the main point he had argued, but it was as much an important question. He related to the human-like species far easier. Only needing to argue that they were real, even if they were in a different plane. A virtual one. The monster, beasts, devils, and even magical creatures. They were all alive, and by his former logic they should all also be real. However, outside of the Alicorns, he had a hard time caring for the others. And he only cared for the Alicorns due to having talked with them, having even experienced Zamia's experiences when she shared some of her memories with him. What she had shared was even clearer than many of his own. Establishing even more that she must be aware. But how else, without telepathy, was he to find who should be deemed to be sentient? Yet this did not matter, it only made his hypocrisy clear to himself. What makes one aware? What makes one real? Eldrian asked himself this as he tried to find an answer outside of his personal belief. In the end, he felt that the answer was belief itself. Much like how he had learned a soul is formed by belief, Eldrian realized that existence is also a case of belief. The developers feared that the NPCs learning of their creation might lead to existential dread. But who was to say that they who had created the simulation was real. It was a question without an answer, and Eldrian found he did not care for it. If they too were a simulation, so what? He realized that he did not place importance on his surroundings, in his world. The place, the physical, did not matter. What mattered was the experiences. For, in the end, this was all that one was. A collection of experiences. A collection which tries to improve. Often failing and repeating past mistakes, yet always aware of the experience. The emotions felt. Not the place. Not the smells. Not the pain. The emotions, and what accompanied them. The emotions bringing the physical back, recreating the memory. Or the physical sometimes bringing the memory. But while the place might sometimes be forgotten, the smells, the noise, what was said. The emotions were never forgotten, it anchored the memory in time. In existence. "You are right," Eldrian said after having taken a long deep look at why. Finally being able to better understand why he so easily became attached to those in the game. Those who others, like his sister, felt were not real. Is this the key? Eldrian wondered, thinking about how he was the only person to have been able to use magic. That those who claim to have felt something, claimed to have followed some of his advice. That all those were also close to the NPCs. The difference, Eldrian felt, was that he truly believed the NPCs were his equal. That, if he grew close to them, then they would be just as important as people where he was born. A different plane, but a plane nonetheless. Most players do not believe this. They feel sympathy, they hate seeing the NPCs being hurt. Some even feel traumatized after losing a friend who was an NPCs. But... They never compare it to human life. Their description of it is always more like losing a pet. The fact that they had a human form made the confusion harder, the distinction less. But they remained adamant that the NPCs were just code. Nonreal."I do not know how to explain it," Eldrian said, Jen had given him the time to sort out his thoughts. "Let me ask, how do you know you are real?""Because I am," Jen answered with almost no pause. The question, rather, the reason for Eldrian's question only hit her after she answered. And it truly shocked her. "I see. That is what you mean." Jen paused, going through her own thoughts and Eldrian gave her the time she needed. Even ordering their meal while she stayed in contemplation.After a while, she finally spoke again, "So... Is this correct? You feel that being able to say you are real, means you are.""In a manner," Eldrian nodded, already finding a few flaws with making it that simple. However, making it that simple made it easier to explain. "But... How can you accept that so easily?" Jen asked, unable to shake the belief that she was much more real than the AI and the NPCs. She just could not accept her reality was not the real one. Trying had nearly caused her to feel depressed. As a result, she had stopped trying as soon as she felt the feeling of loss. Eldrian, in contrast, did not need to believe they were the real one. Instead, he believed all were equally real. That what mattered was the consciousness, which he hoped to one day truly be capable of quantifying. "I never asked or questioned it. It just happened, I only realized now what happened." Eldrian replied, making space for the waiter who was bringing their food. After the plates were placed before them, Eldrian added, "Have you ever questioned why we are conscious, or what it is?"Jen shook her head in reply as she took a bite. "Think about it for a few days, think about why we have so many religions. Why do people always grasp for one, even in a world where magic exists. Religions were created.""But..." Jen paused to swallow, "They have gods, don't they."Eldrian smiled, taking a bite himself. "Yes and no. The AI are not gods, they are creators. Higher beings in that world. But that does not make them gods.""Yes, they accept the prayers. Yes, they sometimes cast miracles for their believers. But they never asked for believers. They complete their function, their jobs. What they themselves were made to do. Yet, in doing so, people started believing in them. Worshipping them. Why?"Jen had plenty of answers. Yet she stopped herself, recalling that Eldrian mentioned specifically that magic existed in their world. This made it far more complicated a question. On Earth, if someone could perform magic, they would be deemed a god by the masses. Scientists might want to study them, others learn from them. Most would just believe in them, hoping that doing so would somehow solve their problems. This was different when magic was present. What they were seeing was explainable, just a much higher level of what they knew. It was comparable to aliens landing one Earth with insane tech. Modern humans, at least a good amount of them, would not start worshipping them because of this. At least, not as long as they did not hide their technology as magic, but rather making it clear that it was just science.If people knew this, then they would wish to understand. Not to worship. This meant that there must be a different reason for belief. That it was not just bowing to powerful beings, but rather something inside of them. Jen quickly found a possible reason. That it was a way to fill the void she had felt creeping in. "I-I... That is a good point." Jen said, feeling slightly lost. Shocked how much this conversation had rocked her. Not because of Miracle nor the AI, but because of her own personal beliefs. And more specifically, what her brother seemed to believe. They were never raised religiously. Jen had thought she had a very open mind. Now she found her mind was like a rock in the sea compared to her brothers. Unable to change, and fighting the tides. If she lost grip, she felt she would never be able to stop being controlled by the tides. ..."What the hell is happening?" Joren asked, having already notified all the other department heads, even having notified Micaela. "I-I... I do not know, sir." Flavia stuttered, having managed to join the monitoring crew on Eldrian's case. Due to his random playtime, they needed someone on him 24/7. Joren did not trust the system to always inform them of developments. Due to the constant need, and the boringness of the job, most people did not wish to take part in it. If something happens, they would all be notified in any case. As such, being the one to monitor just meant staring at a screen with a bunch of lines and a few numbers for hours each day. Flavia had volunteered, and with the job not requiring much technical skill, some of the seniors had quickly dumped it on her. She had hoped it would allow her to find out why Eldrian got special treatment, as well as get in contact with the department heads. Finally, after a week of monitoring, it paid off. However, she found that the contact was one of her being shoved to the side as everyone took things over.
